Vojni portal defence-aerospace, pozivajući se na Portugal News Online, preneo je u utorak 28. januara da je prethodnog dana ozvaničen sporazum o prodaji pet borbenih aviona F-16 Rumuniji koji će, kako je izjavio portugalski ministar odbrane João Gomes Cravinho, biti nadograđeni i osavremenjeni u pogonima kompanije OGMA – Indústria Aeronáutica de Portugal SA.
Na ceremoniji na kojoj je ozvaničena prodaja, ministar odbrane Portugala je u društvu svog rumunskog kolege, izjavio da se ovim postupkom ne prodaju samo avioni već se uspostavljaju veoma bliski odnosi saradnje sa rumunskim Ratnim vazduhoplovstvom, sa pilotima i sa čitavim timom za održavanje vazduhoplova.
Ministar je rekao i da će prvi avioni biti isporučeni već u junu ove godine, potom još dva u oktobru a poslednji početkom 2021. godine. Ugovor vredan 130 miliona evra, pored aviona F-16, uključuje njihovu doradu po rumunskim specifikacijama kao i poslove preobuke i održavanja aviona koje će pripadnici Ratnog vazduhoplovstva Portugala obaviti u Rumuniji. Avioni će kako je ranije saopšteno imati poslednji nivo softvera M6.x u modernizaciji MLU, za razliku od postojećih 12 aviona koji su na nivou M5.2R.
U odnosu na izjave rumunskih političara kao i planove opremanja RV Rumunije višenamenskim borbenim avionima F-16, može se reći da ovaj proces za sada ide veoma sporo. Još jula 2018. godine najavljeno da će se od Portugala kupiti još pet F-16 da bi aprila prošle godine bilo najavljeno da će se ugovor za ovu nabavku potpisati tek krajem 2019. ili početkom 2020. godine.
Rumunija će dakle početkom 2021. godine, oko 4,5 godine od dolaska prvih F-16, imati samo jednu eskadrilu sa 17 aviona dok su prema zvanično iznesenim planovima, potrebne tri eskadrile sa po 16 aviona. Nakon nabavke prvih 12 F-16 nekoliko puta je najavljivano da se postupak nabavke još 36 aviona nastavlja ali je od tada tek sada naručeno samo još pet primeraka. Prvobitno je od tih pet aviona jedan trebao da posluži za rezervne delove ali se najverovatnije od toga ipak odustalo.
Vrlo verovatno je da je na do sada mali broj nabavljenih i naručenih F-16 uticalo pre svega to što je broj pilota kao i pripadnika vazduhoplovnotehničke službe RV Rumunije koji su obučeni za ovaj tip aviona, bio relativno skroman pa su u povremeno u pomoć morali da priskaču Portugalci. Iako je marta prošle godine početkom obavljanja kontrole vazdušnog prostora proglašena početna operativna sposobnost na avionima F-16, u naoružanju se i dalje nalaze modernizovani MiG-ovi 21 a pomoć u čuvanju neba će i dalje pružati saveznici iz NATO.
![[EKSKLUZIVNO] Srpski ugovor za nabavku Rafala podrazumeva opsežnu industrijsku saradnju sa francuskim kompanijama, planira se integracija srpskog preciznog naoružanja vazduh-zemlja](https://media.tangosix.rs/2025/02/MG_9588-262x130.jpg)
Aleksandar I
Bravo za Rumune. Postepeno i sistematski menjaju zastarele Mig 21 sa mnogo boljim
F 16.
Petrovic Dusan
Apsolutno se slazem,Rumunija radi na svojoj drzavnosti kroz EU i NATO i udaljava se svakom godinom sve vise od tamnih godina Čaušeskua,i pripadanja Sovjetskom bloku.
Tedy
Yes. The process seems to be quite slow, but the real money have been invested in the air bases infrastructure, in the most modern weaponry and, after all, this is not only a common sale of some 5 F-16s. This is mainly about the capability of advanced maintenance and upgrade capability who will be completed in Ro from now on. Engine advanced maintenance, complete overhauled of the plane, upgrade to M6 tape. Advanced training for the maintenance crews and for the pilots. A lot of flying hours payed. Building a complete, modern, squadron involves huge amount of resources and the main spendings are not for the planes themselves. All planes will reach advanced bvr capabilities with the new tape as well as net centric capabilities also.
After all, it is not so easy and cheap to manage all of this.
The ideea is to have a fully reliable capability, not just to mark one pro forma.
Tedy
Our bases are meant to be among the most modern in Europe. They can accomodate everything. From F-16s, F-18,s EFs to F-22. This means a lot of money involved.
Dead1
Tedy, all your points are good but most other countries are introducing far more modern and capable aircraft in much bigger numbers in that time. E.g. Egypt is inducting nearly 50 MiG-29M and 24 Rafales in a similar time period.
And of course other countries have adopted advanced F-16s in far greater numbers than Romania in shorter periods over the last few decades. Most had the same issues of needing to upgrade infrastructure etc.
It would appear the real Romanian issue is lack of money or maybe lack of willingness to fund a large scale F-16 acquisition program.
Tedy
Dead1,
You’ re right, but you can’t compare Egypt’s standards of living with those in Ro.
Buying a lot of weapons does not mean you acomplish security all the time. See Libya under Gadafi by exemple.
You have to balance the spendings. Our security does not stand in those 17 F-16s.
AL-41F1
@Tedy
If our standard of living is completely dependent on where the government is going to spend money, then sadly we are still an underdeveloped economy, with the only difference being the „state“ of underdevelopment. And I’m sad to stay, that is entirely the case.
Yes it’s good your gov. isn’t spending tens of billions on defense acquisitions(and ours as well), but it’s not so good that 60% of the job market is still dependent on corrupt ex communist bureaucrats.
That being said, there’s definitive positive progress, mostly thanks to pressure from the EU.
Tedy
Al
We spend only 2% of our gdp for defence. The countries with much lower gdp have the tendency to spend way above their possibilities. This is what I meant.
We’re just fine with our standards.
We’ re part of an alliance and our security is integrated in a larger picture.
Tedy
Al
We spend only 2% of our gdp for defence. The autocratic states with much lower gdp have the tendency to spend way above their possibilities. This is what I meant.
We’re just fine with our standards.
We’ re part of an alliance and our security is integrated in a larger picture.
AL-41F1
@Tedy
My comment was in regards of your observation of the „standard of living“ comparisons. Of course Romania is doing better then Egypt, god forbid it wasn’t, but defense spending has little to do with it. And yes your MOD are doing a fine job modernizing without „breaking the bank“ but that doesn’t change the fact you’ll need to replace some 30 Mig-21s, and with this rate, it’s not going to happen.
Tedy
Al,
As you know, europeans are scarced with the military spendings. You too and you’ re not poor either. Lancers are still fine for aerial police. There is no rush on them. They still have resources.
Some argues that it would be best spending on infrastructure and health instead on defence.
The government spendings influence the development. That is a fact.
Mayer
Germany is to increase defense spending by more than €5bn this year
Dead1
Tedy we could do other comparison with more wealthy and advanced countries. Eg Singapore inducted 40 F-15SGs which were far more advanced than their F-16C/D-50s. Or Poland who inducted 48 F-16s a while back. Or Norway acquiring 52 F-35s. Etc Etc. Or even Portugal acquiring 40 F-16s (+5 for spares) back in the day.
It just appears Romania isn’t too interested in developing or maintaining a serious fighter fleet.
AL-41F1 is totally correct – at this slow pace Romania will only be left with 17 F-16AM/BMs as its entire fighter fleet.
blackjack
a Portugalci hoce li oni nove avione nabavljati
Živojin Banković
Нема назнака у скорије време. Само повећање броја Ф-16.
AL-41F1
Zaista sporo, ali temeljno reklo bi se. 2.5 milijardi ce otici samo na ovu poslednju investiciju u vazduhoplovnu bazu na Crnom Moru.
Kupili su Patriote, trebalo je sve to finansirati, a nije bas da Rumunija ima novca za bacanje.
Samo kao sto ste napisali, bez obuke i kadrova ne vredi. Eto mi bi „jos“ helikoptera, ali nema ko da leti, ni za ovo aviona sto smo dobili smo jedva nasli pilote, sto je skoro u potpunosti krivica MO.
Odbrana je sveobuhvatan sistem i zahteva paralelno ulaganje na vise mesta, inace dobijete oruzane snage Saudijske Arabije ili nekadasnjeg Iraka. Gomila opreme, znanje nula bodova. Ili SRJ, znanje tu, a oprema za prosli vek…..
Pff
Patrioti su instalirani u nato bazi, ne kupljeni…Poljska ce platiti. Rumunija ne koliko znam.
Tedy
Al,
Right.
Patriot, Himars, Piranha 5, AESA TPS-77, 3000 Spike atgw, acccs systems, C4I2 integrated system, the modernisation of the Hawk, 3000 Iveco military trucks that will be made in Ro, Amraam and Aim9x missiles, future Leo2A7, Gowind 2500…
Tedy
Patriots are payed.
Banja Luka
17 letjelica? Rumunija je velika zemlja. Neko vrijeme nisam pratio šta se dešava tamo, predpostavio sam da se odmaklo dalje sa nabavkom onih planiranih 36 aviona. Čovječe, imali su ne tako davno 110 „Lancera“ na pistama…Nije da je to nešto za žaliti, obzirom da je F-16 daleko bolja platforma, ali zna li neko kada ističu resursi onima koji su preostali? Koliko uopšte ima 21-ca koje mogu da lete, 15-tak? Pitam se kako je izgledalo biti vojni pilot u Rumuniji u posljednjih 20 godina? Broj letjelica koji je izbačen na livade je prosto frapantan. IAR-93, MiG-29, MiG-21…Mislim da se od par stotina pilota došlo do toga da sada imaju dvadesetak ljudi koji su spremni za F-16.
Kako to uopšte izgleda što se tiče obuke? Teddy? Osnovna još na Jak-52? Da li se onda koristi IAR-99? Ovo je bio dobar projekat školskog aviona. Lijepo zamišljen i izuzetno savremen, ali nije mi poznato koliko ih je napravljeno, da li se koriste? Poslje ovoga na F-16, ili piloti prolaze kompletnu obuku van Rumunije? Kako to izgleda sada?
Veljko
@ Banja Luka „Poslje ovoga na F-16, ili piloti prolaze kompletnu obuku van Rumunije? Kako to izgleda sada?“ Izgleda tako da hiljade NATO pilota mogu da im pomognu u bilo kakvom sukobu sa bilo kojim neprijateljom,, dok ne zavrse obuku na F-16,.
Živojin Banković
Још увек се користи око 25-26 МиГ-ова 21 који ће морати летети још 4-5 година.
Основна обука је још на Јак-у 52 затим се прелази на IAR-99 (имају их 18).
Tedy
Yes. The 20 IAR99 Soim is to be upgraded for the F-16 training and there are around 30 Lancers as the media reporter. We do advanced maintenance for them and complete overhaul, so they can fly.
But you’re right, we are the only one with such a shortage in planes. All the others, inclusiv you, have hundreds of them. See Hungary, Slovakia, Czech republic…
Tedy
Zivojin
20 IAR 99
https://m.romanialibera.ro//economie/companiile-straine-isi-disputa-un-contract-de-124-de-milioane-de-euro-pen-tru-armata-romana-776402
Tedy
Since 2017 they are fully trained în Ro by ro instructors.
http://stiri.tvr.ro/exclusivitate-botezul-pilo–ilor-de-f-16-pregati–i-in-romania–primul-zbor-fara-instructor_824491.html
Živojin Banković
Well I have bort numbers for 18 aircraft. Also Flight International quotes 18 IAR-99.
Tedy
Yes, but I guess the ones who approved the funds for upgrading the 21 IAR99 know better. In the meantime one was lost. So, there are 20.
Tedy
The pilots do fly at least 140 hours, but they spend a lot more în the simulator.
https://monitorulapararii.ro/exclusiv-comandorul-catalin-miclos-numarul-1-al-f-16-din-fortele-aeriene-romane-la-inceputul-anului-viitor-escadrila-53-vanatoare-va-executa-misiuni-1-8865
https://news.lockheedmartin.com/2017-05-08-Romania-Air-Force-to-Receive-F-16-Fighting-Falcon-Training-System
Живојин
In 2010. there was 21 IAR-99, since then there was at least two crashes, in 2012 and 2018.
Živojin Banković
Tedy
Never mind 18, 20, similar number. :)
Do You have info about airworthy percent of the Romanian F-16 fleet?
Tedy
Sorry but no. I don’ t.
Banja Luka
@Teddy
„But you’re right, we are the only one with such a shortage in planes. All the others, inclusiv you, have hundreds of them. See Hungary, Slovakia, Czech republic…“
There is no need for sarcasm, really. Romania has 2,5x times bigger airspace than Hungary, 5x bigger than Slovakia, about 3 times bigger than Serbia. Yet, you now have similar or same number of usable aircraft for airspace protection. Also- Slovakia is going to have way more powerful fighter in its airforce. Please don’t tell me that the reason for that is it’s economy strength, or that they like burning money, because, they don’t. You are NATO country? Check! You now are modern, powerful, ready, army? Ok! You have spent more than 5 years on F-16 transition and more than 20 years on NATO standards transition? Ok. Where are the planes and pilots for them? How is the current process of training young pilots for F-16 looks like? Why are you still not able to protect your own airspace without using MiG-21 platform? You know very good how many pilots you lost on “Lancer”. Now they “have” to fly few more years…How many years? After You spend 8 years and….what ? Bilion USD? You are still not going to have airforce after all this? 40 planes in two bases is minimum for Romania Teddy. It’ s cool to have allies, but- it’s fact- or You have ability to protect your sky or you don’t. It’s shame that today Romania don’t have real airforce no more. With really glorious tradition your country have in this field, results had to be better. What is this? How effective it really is? What are you so eager to defend? It’s time to get serious and take your place in NATO system as member you should be. To restore glory of Romanian wings, and not to compare yourself with Slovakia, ok? What do you need 1000 IVECO trucks for? To drive bombing casualties in case of some escalation in the east? Airforce is priority for Romania Teddy- I can’t believe how slow with implementation of this simple logic people are. Best regards!
AL-41F1
@Tedy
140h airtime per pilot sounds like massive exaggeration considering it took them years to reach IOC and FOC. But maybe they’re not lying, what do I know.
What I can say for certain is that our pilots get to fly a lot more because I see the fighters every other day or week, when just a few years back, it was only once or twice a year. Sometimes not even that.
Also it seems like Joint exercises are more common now. I really like when pilots from our countries get to fly and practice together.
Tedy
Banja Luka,
Maybe I was wrong when I felt a little sarcasm in your own comment or it was just google translate, but I was definetly wrong replying in a same manner. You’right. My mistake. But you know the saying, who teases you loves you.
Tedy
Al,
Those hours are in the budget. Any army needs trucks. 3000 are what we need and the contract was signed. They can be used in various ways, not just transporting the dead ones, friends or foes.
Tedy
Banja Luka,
Yes. The process is slow, but we neglected the army for more than 20 years and we need everything. Yesterday.
With 50 F16s you can not do much agains a larger enemy. Even 70 will be not enough.
Our defence minister aknoledged that and this stage is only a transitory one toward the 5th gen.
If you would ask me, I would say that building air bases is far more important than having 50 4th gen. How many planes do Germany has now? What about Russia? How many they had during the cold war?
We need those trucks and the reply was for you regarding this aspect, not for Al41.
Exept a very few, almost nobody can protect themselves on they own.
Dead1
Also Romania is technically a „frontline“ NATO state that is located in an area that has seen considerable geopolitical tension and open conflict (ie Ukraine and Crimea).
It is only logical that Romania would maintain a bigger and more capable air force and one that is capable of long range anti shipping and tactical support of maritime operations.
Basically you have a key flashpoint between NATO and Russia covered by 17 old F-16s and 30 ancient MiG-21s.
Tedy
Dead1
You know it is not the case.
Between us and our threats thare are a lot more than 17 F16s. You can count USAF F16s, F18s, F35s and F22s.
There is no major challange to our security in the medium term.
AL-41F1
@Tedy
I didn’t make that remark about trucks. Actually I believe logistics along with proper intel are by far the most important thing in an actual conflict.
Yes NATO is great for you, superb, but remember one can never be too dependent on foreign assistance ;)
Not saying you should kill healthcare to buy fighters, that’s stupid, but an additional squadron should be high on the priority list.
Best regards. I hope to see you more often on this publication.
Tedy
@Al, Banja Luka, all of you,
With all respect, sympathy and, sometimes, even affection I can feel for you, I can sense something that I simply can not understand.
We are not preparing to win a war or to conquer some nation . We’re only preparing to defend ourselves in a larger defensive system în which we have to stand for a week, maybe, until larger forces arrive.
In this paradigm we have to balance our spendings and resources.
When Poland, a great and hard tested nation, bought the F35 it was not ok according much of the commentaries. When we do not spend huge amount and try to optimise, it s not ok either. What is ok?! An adversary trying to reach our space will have to face a squadron of F16s tape M6 with Amraam D, fully integrated în a C4I2 system with a lot of very modern radars, including Aesa ones. The planes will be full net centric and supported by the most advanced Patriot, coupled with a lot of modernised Hawks, Oerlikon, Gepard.., everything mixed up with F15s, F18s, F16s or Ef of Nato forces stationed in Ro .
It is not enough for a few days?
In this context, having large air bases is essential. More than having a lot of planes and being completelly alone.
But, maybe, I’ m wrong.
Best regards to all.
Tedy
Thanks Al. I appreciate your honest and equilibrate position. I really do. We are far more friends than foes. This is a fact.
Banja Luka
Look Teddy, I assure You- there is no sarcasm in my words. IAR99 Soim is advanced and interesting project, worthy of Romanian experts, well placed and planned on time. The rest of this story with airforce transition towards modern and whatnot is….well it looks strange when you see it from our perspective, ok? We always looked with admiration on Romanian airforce, and its personnel in specific. It was literally army of men, trained and schooled for vast variety of tasks.
You know very well that I don’t like “Lancer” as aircraft, that I think it was rather unreliable and I think Israeli MiG-29 upgrade was maybe better way to follow in those days, if it was possible but….This is not important- Your country did it! You had resources and know how to incorporate Israeli expertise in huge number of aircrafts and to do it rather cheap and to do it good. It was great endeavour and inspiration for airforce professionals, and enthusiast likewise in my country. You need to understand something: In those years (approx) we where all but dismantling our military for the sake of “modernisation” and “integration” and…well You got the picture. Thousands of high profile experts were expelled from military and related systems like “obsolete” and archaic personnel. In the end- we almost destroyed our army real ability to do anything- and we needed years to reverse this process and build this abilities again. Ok, we had destroyed country after conflicts of the 90-ties and no economy, but what is your excuse? When we see some things happening in Bulgaria or Romania now- it looks very similar to us to some things we have already seen here. Building expensive “paper dragon” on pretext of “there are not going to be any more wars”, “who needs army”, and in your case “Somebody else is going to guard us”.
So- it’s not sarcasm, if it’s anything- it is misbelieve, anger- Romania don’t have enough pilots for planned fighter squadrons today? Why? How?. You are not helping either. :). From time to time you give us a word about some equipment acquisition, or something like that- so money is there, right? How that I have impression that real ability (and deterrence factor) of Romanian airforce and its personal is today worse that it was 10 or 12 years ago? If I’m wrong- sorry, but well oiled and huge mechanism of some past time today looks little bit lame- like some Hollywood wannabe “play”.
Army in its nature should be preparing for worst case scenarios in peace time, with ambition to prolong this peace time as long as possible (agree?). This is not paranoid or strange- it’s logical. If you pay for tool- you should be able to use it for something, right? It seams to me that you are paying for tool that you can’t use for anything, except if somebody from W.DC decide to help you. You have potential for so much more. Romania should be NATO eastern airforce hub, that Soim should be trainer aircraft for many member states- your biros, personal and technical infrastructure should be asset and strength , not to be discarded as obsolete junk. Trucks are ok. But this is airforce portal Teddy- I expected more from Romania, that’s all. I wont be commenting on this topic anymore, best regards!
Tedy
Banja Luka,
Ok. I understand now. It s hard to sense all nuances when a language it’ s not yours and a device intermediates between you and the speaker and with the interference of a pain in the ass corrector. I know you for a while and I know you’ re a great guy.
Ok. After the dissolution of the Eastern Block, our economy suffered greatly. It was chaos and disaster. Lack of money and all the rest. I lived those times and you know it too. This was all thru the 90s. So, the military was not so important for receveing funds. Only minor, pure stop gapp solutions.
The MiG29 was scarced, no support from the manufacturer and with low life due to lack of maintenance capabilities in the country. Same with the MiG23.
The only solution available, good or bad, was the Lancer.
That assured the preservation of a capability and the pilot’s training until know.
The F16s pilots come from the Lancer.
We started the F16 in 2008 but the global crisis struck and the program was terminated them. It was an offer for 24 F16C and 24 new F16C. It was not to be.
Then there were those portuguese F16s in a moment when US promote the F16V and want to sell new planes.
Of course, the goal is the F35, but we need a cheaper fighter and in enough numbers.
The spending for defence increased dramatically, but there are a lot to be done.
That’ s pretty much all about it.
Best regards to you too.
Marko
Nekad bili Sovjeti danas Nato nikakva razlika osim što je danas 21 vek pa deluje da je Sovjecko oružje neupotrebljivo.Sve zemlje istočne evrope su u potpunoj zavisnosti od zapada tehnološkoj i finansiskoj čak ih i u rat teraju što Sovjezi nisu.Ovi F-16 su za klasični air policing za neku ozbiljniju borbu ovo je pravo smeće niti dovaljan broj niti operativnost na zavidnom nivou.Sovjeti su delili licence dok se domaća industrija organizovala i proizvodila oružja.Zapad im danas prodaje visoko tehnološko oružje po bezobrazno visokim cenama dok na drugoj strani ključni proizvodjački resursi su u zapadnom vlastništvu.Ne pitaju se rumuni ništa kao i ostatak istočne evrope to su države sa ograničenim suverinitetom.
Mayer
Covek samo moze odmahnuti glavom kad cita ovakve komentare. Ogromna razlika. Danas je dobrovoljno a tada je SSSR drzao istocnoevropske zemlje prisilno u nekoj tampon zoni prema zapadu iza gvozdene zavese pa ih je i malo kao subvencionirao, najcesce jeftinom energijom i oruzijem. I to je pitanje koliko je to bilo ispod cene. Recimo, kada se gradio naftovod/gasovod Druzba, SSSR je netarao DDR da im posalju 10K radnika a njihov rad je trebao kasnije biti otplacen isporukama gasa. To je bio neverovatan napor za Istocnu Nemacku tih godina, ekstreman nedostatak radne snage a nije se moglo reci ne. Nesto ne vidim da USA danas traze od Ceske da im salje radnike „na kuluk“ :-).
Posetilac
A mi pucamo od suvereniteta i to na celoj teritoriji!
AL-41F1
Probaj da prodajes Vegetu i najlon carape u zemljama bivseg Varsavskog ugovora pa ces videti da je ogromna razlika ;)
Niko ih ne tera u rat, dobrovoljno se ide i debelo se placa.
O kontroli „proizvodjackih resursa“ je glupo pricati kada nekada nisu smeli nikakvu privatnu proizvodnju da imaju bilo cega.
maxy
Danas su cene postale bezobrazno visoke za svu kvalitetnu tehniku i opremu, tako da to ne stoji kao argument. Takođe, ne zaboravite inflaciju koja koliko god bila mala na zapadu ipak gure cene na gore posmatrano u periodu od 30 godina.
Rumuni se možda ništa ne pitaju, ali imaju privredu bar 4 puta veću nego našu.
Iz razgovora sa rumunima sam došao do informacija da ih zapad tj. EU jednostavno gura napred. Realno su u demografskom i vojnom smislu sila za celu bivšu SFRJ.
Petrovic Dusan
@ Marko Vi mora da ste zavrsilo najvise politicke i vojne skole,sa kakvom samouverenoscu iznosite ove blesave zakljucke.
Nije Vam palo na pamet da savremeni lovac zaista kosta neuporedivo skuplje od aviona 2 i 3 generacije koje je nekada davno proizvodio SSSR?
Da li uopste razumete koliko su to drugacije letelice?
To, sto neka zemlja posalje veoma mali broj vojnika u neku zajednicku misiju NATO je jako dobro za vojsku, koja treba da saradjuje sa zemljama clanicama saveza.A NATO imje garant njihove bezbednosti.Upravo da im se ne bi nikada ponovo dogodilo da padnu u ruke nekoj istocnoj zemlji-znamo na koga se misli.
A o tome da su F-16″smece“ zaista ne vredi pisati.Pogledajte malo istorijat ovog aviona u borbama.
Crni Grujo
Sledeći veliki rat ce odličivati raketni sistemi i bespilotne letjelice.. i svaki novi veliki rat donosi manji broj ljudskih žrtava.. avijoni neće visše igrati bitnu ulogu u ratovanju.. novi rat će nas opet iznenaditi..najvjerovatnije će se ići na cyber napade električnih mreža..sistema..itd.. izklopis internet i 90 % će se odmah predati ;)
Petrovic Dusan
@Mayer Upravo tako.Zapravo, pod izgovorm „oslobadjanja od nacizma“ Staljin je prakitcno okupirao te zemlje istocne Evrope, i Rusija ih je drzala u okupaciji sve do 1989,eksploatisuci te narode i drzave kao kolonijalna sila.
Setimo se ustanaka koje je SSSR krvavo ugusio tenkovima u Istocnoj Nemackoj, pa u Madjarskoj (1956) pa Prasko prolece (1968) pa Solidarnost u Poljskoj 1982…
Ovo zaista nije slicno sa clanstvom tih drzava u NATO.Em je dobrovoljno,em garantuje bezbednost ovim zemljama atomskim oruzjem koje imaju clanice NATO- Francuska,Britanija,a posebno USA.
Andrija
@Marko
Države bivšeg Varšavskog pakta imaju daleko veći suverenitet danas kao članice EU i NATO nego što su imale pod Sovjetima. Uostalom pitajte njih zašto su dobrovoljno pohrlili da budu pod američkom ,,kapom“ i ne žele da imaju ništa sa Rusima? Možda njihov suverenitet jeste ograničen i danas ali se jedna Poljska, Češka, ili Rumunija pita za mnogo više toga nego jedna Srbija.
Olako se zaboravlja da smo mi bili nesvrstani u hladnom ratu i da nismo iskusili kako je to biti pod sovjetskom čizmom. Mi zato nemamo nikakve ,,traume“ od Rusa kao što imaju ostali istočni Evropljani. Naše i njihovo istorijsko iskustvo se po tom pitanju bitno razlikuje.